Tits and Ass advertising
I visit two roleplaying game sites on a regular basis: RPG.net and EN World. RPG.net is the grand-daddy of the game sites and I've been a regular reader, infrequent poster since its creation, ten years or more... it's been part of my daily online routine for so long I honestly can't remember when precisely it started. I suppose I lose geek points for not being able to recall the precise minute I discovered the site. Oh well. EN World is what Eric Noah's 3rd Edition site morphed into once D&D 3rd Edition launched and Eric retired from the onerous job of moderating the biggest D&D fansite on the internet, and I've been there (in both its forms) for at least five years at this point.
What I want to know is when Tits and Ass advertising took over the banner ads at EN World! Is there some sort of informal T&A Ad contest going on that I don't know about?!
I ask you in advance to pardon this lengthy preamble, but let me be clear: I hate that shit. As a woman who has built a career in the roleplaying game business over the last (holy crap!) NINETEEN years, I have at times been belittled, denigrated, and dismissed based only on my gender, I've worked the booth for the companies I owned only to have some neanderthal walk up and look for any male in the area to talk to (even, let's say, if it's just Ken Hite or some other industry professional utterly unaffiliated with my company who happens to be hanging out behind my booth talking to me), I've been told to "shut up, frigid bitch" by gamer employers whose awkward attempts at romance I've spurned, I've had competitors complain to the men of the company under the mistaken impression that the man was my boss and that they'd be getting me in some sort of trouble because of something I'd said or done that pissed them off, and I have just about zero tolerance for the practice of using "booth babes" who don't have the first idea about the product they're flaunting their bodies for. I'm less judgmental about fantasy illustrations that depict attractive female figures in the context of the settings they're hawking, I don't mind well-rendered paintings of beautiful girls and I've got a pretty broad definition of "appropriate" attire in that context. I dislike being introduced as an after-thought, as "Chris's wife," because I had a career in the game industry several years before Pramas did and I've seen my credibility with strangers evaporate before my eyes after being introduced as 'the wife' because people assume he came first and I'm some sort of sympathy vote or tag-a-long when I was "here" first.
Lately, every day when I visit the EN World front page I'm seeing banner adds that are shamelessly using Tits and Ass to advertise their products. When Avalanche Press did the Tits and Ass thing, they at least had the decency to put their cover babes in chainmail thigh-highs or make the tits and ass somewhat relevant to the setting. Usually, though not always.
Today's D20 advertisers, on the other hand, are barely even trying to stay in bounds (if they're trying at all). It's just Tits and Ass. They're not even trying to dress it up. I log in to the EN World front page and I get treated to this:
or this:
or this:
or this (which is actually saved as "HOOTERBANNER.GIF"!!:
At least this one makes a self-referential statement about advertising with boobies:
After a couple of weeks of this, I finally have to say to my esteemed colleagues: WHAT THE FUCK!? This is the best that you can do? THIS is all you have to entice people to give your product a looksee? TITS? That's what you've got? Thanks guys. Classy.
Thankfully, the RPG.net advertisers haven't felt the need to stoop to straight-up offering titties in their banner ads. Here's hoping the trend holds.
What I want to know is when Tits and Ass advertising took over the banner ads at EN World! Is there some sort of informal T&A Ad contest going on that I don't know about?!
I ask you in advance to pardon this lengthy preamble, but let me be clear: I hate that shit. As a woman who has built a career in the roleplaying game business over the last (holy crap!) NINETEEN years, I have at times been belittled, denigrated, and dismissed based only on my gender, I've worked the booth for the companies I owned only to have some neanderthal walk up and look for any male in the area to talk to (even, let's say, if it's just Ken Hite or some other industry professional utterly unaffiliated with my company who happens to be hanging out behind my booth talking to me), I've been told to "shut up, frigid bitch" by gamer employers whose awkward attempts at romance I've spurned, I've had competitors complain to the men of the company under the mistaken impression that the man was my boss and that they'd be getting me in some sort of trouble because of something I'd said or done that pissed them off, and I have just about zero tolerance for the practice of using "booth babes" who don't have the first idea about the product they're flaunting their bodies for. I'm less judgmental about fantasy illustrations that depict attractive female figures in the context of the settings they're hawking, I don't mind well-rendered paintings of beautiful girls and I've got a pretty broad definition of "appropriate" attire in that context. I dislike being introduced as an after-thought, as "Chris's wife," because I had a career in the game industry several years before Pramas did and I've seen my credibility with strangers evaporate before my eyes after being introduced as 'the wife' because people assume he came first and I'm some sort of sympathy vote or tag-a-long when I was "here" first.
Lately, every day when I visit the EN World front page I'm seeing banner adds that are shamelessly using Tits and Ass to advertise their products. When Avalanche Press did the Tits and Ass thing, they at least had the decency to put their cover babes in chainmail thigh-highs or make the tits and ass somewhat relevant to the setting. Usually, though not always.
Today's D20 advertisers, on the other hand, are barely even trying to stay in bounds (if they're trying at all). It's just Tits and Ass. They're not even trying to dress it up. I log in to the EN World front page and I get treated to this:
or this:
or this:
or this (which is actually saved as "HOOTERBANNER.GIF"!!:
At least this one makes a self-referential statement about advertising with boobies:
After a couple of weeks of this, I finally have to say to my esteemed colleagues: WHAT THE FUCK!? This is the best that you can do? THIS is all you have to entice people to give your product a looksee? TITS? That's what you've got? Thanks guys. Classy.
Thankfully, the RPG.net advertisers haven't felt the need to stoop to straight-up offering titties in their banner ads. Here's hoping the trend holds.
I'm reminded in part of Frank Zappa ("Where’s those titties that I like so well / ’N my goddamn beer! / Is what I started to yell...").
That said, I think that part of the problem is that there's a large segment of this industry that things that adventure games are Guy's Things, so they're marketed accordingly. Even at the Detroit Auto Show they had booth babes as part of the vehicle displays, and this despite evidence that women make or influence ~80% of car purchases.
And people wonder why there aren't more women in gaming...
Their T&A ads are one reason that I refuse to review their stuff over at RPGnow. I figure that's better than having my reviews biased by my attitude about their cheesecake.
As Pramas posted on his blog after Gencon, I was treated horrifically at the Star Wars minis tournament. When I went up and reported my loss in the battle, the socially inept, Jaba-The-Hutt-lookalike loudly said, "Of course you did."
I was flabberghasted and so completely stunned that my usual tirade of expletives concerning his mother was just shut down. My husband flipped out and confronted him in front of a large group of people. The guy denied saying it, even though his co-worker looked mortified when he said it, apologized, and let me pick any mini I wanted rather than what I actually rolled because he felt so sorry for me.
And then, working the GR booth at Gencon, I had some guy come up and start telling me in great detail and length how he loved the character in Thieves World that liked to be raped. Thankfully, a friend of mine was lurking nearby and came to the rescue, but WTF? You know? REALLY.
I understand why they use T&A advertising. It's the closest to real T&A a lot of gamers will ever see in the entire lives. But while I understand it, I don't agree with it. I am more than a pair of tits walking around. I'm intelligent, creative, and I have known my entire life I will have to work twice as hard to be taken seriously. It's bullshit.
Sing it, sister!
I modified and expanded on my rant here and posted it as a formal request to my industry peers over on EN World itself: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=166106
Unfortunately, it turned (as it always does) into a bunch of snide bickering about who doesn't have a sense of humor or who has such a poor self-image they can't stand that there might be actual hot chicks who game (because, really, the seductive mouth in the 17 magical weapons ad represents an actual gamer chick, don'cha know?), or how anyone with the nerve to *ask* their colleagues not to stoop to this kind of thing is an eeeeevil CENSOR!!!11!
We're just imagining it, Kara. We should just suck it up when those creepy guys come rub on us or corner us to talk about their rape fantasies or belittle our contributions to the industry, because "it happens everywhere" so why even try to change it?
::roll eyes::
I just wish that they could understand that using "cheesecake" with gamers completely skews their view on women even further because most of them are too freaked out to even talk to a girl, much less view them as having brains, aspirations, or a talent other than standing around in a push-up bra.
TS and I had a good talk about this at Gencon. And while he encouraged me to just call gamers on socially inacceptable behavior, I doubt it will really do any good. I dunno, maybe I should just start slapping them around when they say something stupid or stare at my tits for the 30th time in a half hour.
But somehow, I doubt the GR crew would want me chucking hard back corebooks like ninja throwing stars at people's heads. hehe
Two ironies:
Can't speak for anybody else around here, but I certainly (respectfully) counted Nicole as a hot babe back in her single days.
And the day I read Nicole's original rant, was the same day I had to send a request to one of my coworkers: "As a personal favour to me, the next time you decide to wear that particular blouse to work, can I suggest/request a camisole?"
Spike Y Jones
To clarify what I wrote so poorly, the irony is that some make the assumption that those who complain about the ads are just jealous... which is ironic, in that Nicole was (and is, for that matter, but now that both of us are in the happily married camp it's just not done to think of her in that way) an intelligent, competent, *and* good-looking female gamer and game industry professional.
Spike Y Jones
Nicole--
An email works wonders-- your complaint was buried in the Meta forum. The first I heard of the dustup was this morning.
I'm sorry that you missed the point of the "Obligatory Hooterbanner" advertisement. Or maybe the point was too pointed, I dunno.
The banner-- the "I can't believe he actually named it HOOTERBANNER"-- banner, was *supposed* to draw attention to the problem.
Suffice to say that I am WITH you on this issue. I pulled down the banner-- as I intended to do anyway-- because the "satire" was apparently too oblique.
For the record, my click-throughs on that banner went DOWN.
You can read the whole genesis of this banner here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=159276&page=1&pp=40
Again, sorry you took such offense. I would have preferred, as a colleage, an email to a public flogging, but I can take the blowback.
Benjamin Durbin
Bad Axe Games
Suffice to say that I am WITH you on this issue. I pulled down the banner-- as I intended to do anyway-- because the "satire" was apparently too oblique.
Sorry Ben, I was informed after the fact that your ad (and the ad from EN Publishing) were intended as satire. Unfortunately, I didn't get the memo and only saw a string of ads popping up when I hit the EN World front page. The ads make more sense in that context.
Unfortunately, I (and others) saw them only as they popped up, as banner ads on the En World front page and so the "punch" was lost... kinda like those poor schmucks who get intereviewed by the Daily Show without realizing the show isn't serious.
I addressed my comments to the Meta forum in the hope that there could be some discussion on the subject amongst EN World's publishers and advertisers and the EN World admins and moderators. Obviously that lasted for about a page and until the personal attacks and threats started in. However, I don't regret bringing the issue up for discussion in public, because that's where the ads were appearing and my willingness to voice my concerns encouraged several others who admitted they'd been thinking the same thing but hadn't said anything.
C'mon Nikchik, you're better than this. On one hand you're offended that the image of females is being skewed by the ads and then you turn around and talk about mouth-breater male gamers. You and Kara make it seem like the typical male gamer is a rude, obnoxious, perpetual virgin that can't seem to talk to a woman in a normal manner, so he treats her like shit. If you're going to go on a rant about how one sex views the other then don't go committing the same sins yourself.
On one hand you're offended that the image of females is being skewed by the ads and then you turn around and talk about mouth-breater male gamers
Sorry Giles, I can't give you that one. I'm not sure I understand your objection. I'm not at all generalizing that *all* male gamers are like those worst examples. I didn't say "all", I didn't say "most," I didn't even say "many". Please feel free to elaborate on your point and I'll happily discuss it with you.
I am drawing from actual experience in my "mouth-breather" examples: the guys sharing their rape fantasies, the guys cornering me in elevators, the men who think that just because I said hello in the hotel lobby they're allowed to rub on me for the rest of the convention, the grown man who thought that because I joined him for a Coke on my break he was allowed to try to physically pick me up and take me off to his room when I told him I had to go... These are not hypotheticals, these are a sampling of many actual experiences that I have personally endured at the hands of a few gamer men. Kara has her own, Michelle and the other women who joined in the conversation at EN World have their own. None of us believe that's what "the typical gamer" is like or we wouldn't still be here, choosing to work or play in gaming.
I work with men every single day who do not remotely treat me like these examples. The great majority of men, not just gamer men, would never in a million years behave like these cretins. But let's not pretend that they're not out there, or that every time I attend a convention I don't have to keep alert to avoid another creepy, uncomfortable situation. Even if 99% of our male audience would never, ever cross these lines... we still deal with that remaining 1% and it's that 1% in particular who do not need to be encouraged to treat the women they encounter (in the game industry or in life) as pretty play things.
Nikchick is correct, she has not attributed "many" or "a lot" as the group of problem male gamers. Those are only in the comments section.
NikChick, I am truly sorry that you have had such bad experiences with men.
BSF
Aw, I don't so much consider it bad experiences with "men" as with people. Sure, I've had some run-ins with some real creeps, but it's not like I've written off all men as creeps or anything.
I mean, I love men! My best friends are all men, my partners in business are men, my game group is all men... I had a Bridesman instead of a Bridesmaid at my wedding. I've had innumerable rewarding, enlightening, fulfilling, gratifying experiences with men.
Nik is completely right. I don't hate men. Hell, all but two of my friends are men, and gamers at that. Not one of my male gamer friends would ever treat a woman (or any person) the way I am treated by some of these creeps.
But the fact is, stereotypes exist because they are based on some level of reality. If they were totally made up, they wouldn't persist. My male gamer friends are respectful, and kind, and they would kick anyone's ass that ever mistreated me in front of them...as they did at the Star Wars tourney.
But I have seen and met and had to deal with a LOT of freaks. My husband ran a gaming store for 9 years. I've seen just about everything. And a LOT of them were very stereotypical.
For every rape-fantasy creep I encountere at a convention, I encounter 100 semi-respectful guys that smile and tell me to have a nice day.
In short, I am not a man-hater. Zeus knows I have enough reasons to BE one, but I'm not. People suck. Male/Female/Shim...it doesn't matter. I know more women that I think are evil, abusive, and downright awful people than men. So I have to agree with Nik that it's "people," not men.
Sorry that you took a rant personally.
I don't blog, so I don't have a user account to post under.
It's not so much that I take it personally. It is a rant after all and you don't know me. Because of that, I normally wouldn't post at all. I just wanted to clarify for Giles that Nikchick, in fact, did not make broad generalizations. Since I had gone that far, and some notably lousy experiences with men had been mentioned, I also felt the need to offer that I am sorry that anybody has had to experience that crap.
Sure, you might have had similar experiences with other folk. But that wasn't what you related.
No harm done so don't sweat it.
BSF
Some folks have all the taste of asparagus. I call it rudeness, and I say the hell with it.
Assert yourself. Lay into the idiot with both barrels blazing and let him know what you think of him. Be vile, be cruel, use every rhetorical trick you know, and every bit of vocabulary you can muster. Metaphorically mangle his testicles, and carry it out into public.
And keep an eye out for any opportunity to hit the ass with sexual assault charges. Because that's what he's engaged in. Make a fuss about it. For it's only by stomping on these idiots that you'll cut down on such incidents.
When defending yourself you have the obligation to fight dirty.
Just saw a new ad from Le Games and thought of this post. This time it's beefcake instead of cheesecake. Still find it vaguely offensive, although also vaguely amusing. Still not provoking interest in the product, though....